- cross-posted to:
- sysadmin@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- sysadmin@lemmy.world
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This is very upsetting to me–more as a point of principle than in fact–but I appreciate that it doesn’t bother younger generations at all. I just had a small argument with my 11 year old about how not-a-big-deal-who-cares this is, and it basically ended with us agreeing to disagree since it’ll be his problem and his kids’ problem.
And the problem is normalizing the notion that an OS doesn’t need to include a non-subscription word processor. The entire point of this move is to shift the OS Overton Window in favor of consumers accepting and expecting that features like word processors, spreadsheets, etc., should be installed separately and paid for on a subscription basis despite previous iterations of the same software being feature complete on install and purchased at a set, non-recurring fee.
WordPad hasn’t been anybody’s first choice for a word processor in years, but it was included with Windows and did the bare minimum for unsophisticated users. Now we’re entering an era in which those users will as a matter of course buy off-the-shelf computers that come pre-installed without WordPad, but rather with a trial of Office Fuck-You-Pay-Me Edition. Those users may well discover that after their first six months with their new computer (that has made Microsoft more money selling their data than they paid for it), they suddenly get a pop-up informing them that their trial is up and MS wants $99.99 to release the documents they’re holding hostage.
It’s a step backwards for consumers in general, so even for the sophisticated of us who are least likely to be personally affected by this change, there’s definitely cause for alarm.
I get where you’re coming from but I think you’re overstating the impact in this day and age. If this had been 1995 it’d be a big deal. Now it’s rediculously easy to install any alternative you like for free.
Libre Office is an entire free fully features office suite.
I’m less bothered about removing WordPad than I am about Microsoft advertising and pre-installing it’s products in Windows - they force Edge on people, they push OneDrive and preinstall a preview of Office. That’s the real problem - not losing WordPad.
At one point Anti-Trust / Anti-monopoly regulators globally punished Microsoft for pushing Internet Explorer to consumers and for a long time in Europe had to offer a choice of Browsers to download on new Windows installs. Now it’s allowed to get away with abusing it’s dominant position to force it’s products on consumers.
Does liber office make .docx files and export to pdf?
Yes.
Yes, and recent versions of MS Word can also read odt, so no need for docx just to work with Word users.
It wouldn’t be as good as everyone says if it didn’t.
Yup
Nice 👍
I built a new PC two months ago and it’s the first time I didn’t get Office. Libre Office has everything I need and it’s free.
I’ve wondered about free suites like these - how do they make money, do you know?
They don’t. Libre Office is maintained by a non-profit called The Document Foundation. They’re funded entirely by donations. I think they make enough to have some full time employees.
A lot of open source software is created by individuals or non-profits. The Mozilla foundation makes Firefox, for instance. They make money through donations and also Google pays them a ton of money to be the default search engine.
There are for profit companies that make or contribute to open source software. Such as Red Hat. They tend to make money by selling support for the software.
I don’t think they make money. It’s an open source project where people donate their time as far as I know.
EDIT: I forgot to mention you can donate to the project. Something has to pay for web hosting, I guess.
A bit of donations, a bit of unpaid people contributing just to help others.
Donations. Volunteers.
Or you know, google docs is a thing which is free and imo works better than word
Google docs is still trash though.
How so?
A web browser is not a word processor no matter how much they tart it up. If the thing isn’t saving a file to my local drive that is in a common format It’s not worth putting your effort into.
So many kids are going to grow up not having the concept where data lives and what the failure modes are.
How so? I think you can export in different formats?
I’d like to normalize the notion that an OS shouldn’t include any application software except for a browser you can use to install other things. Let people pick what they want to use and install it themselves.
Yeah, just download LibreOffice or use a free service like Google Docs.
You can even use Microsoft Word for free online.
The whole argument that “a subscription service becomes necessary” is nonsense.
or just WPS if you hate these and don’t hate China more than Microsoft
use onlyoffice desktop editors here.
Wasn’t there an anti trust or monopoly suite against Microsoft for bundled IE back in the day? Funny how times change, though I agree it’s not easy to get a preferred browser without one. Mean it never was overly simple but they were on so many CDs mailed out back then. Think it has to do with some IE and Windows integration too so not just cause they bundled it.
The problem with IE4 is that it was designed in such a way that it was deeply integrated into the operating system, such that it could not be uninstalled.
It’s completely reasonable now to ship an operating system without a browser, as long as there’s some kind of “app store” or “package manager” through which a user can install whatever browser they want (provided it’s available through said store, of course).
Better yet, the OS should just include a desktop environment with simple utilities and a package manager to install the applications you want. It will make users less likely to run into malware while searching for the programs in the web
It shouldn’t include a desktop environment, I want to be able to install my own.
I mean you can. Most people who interact with computers aren’t that knowledgeable and just want their OS to have usable defaults which is fine.
We’re talking about Windows here, where the desktop environment is too thoroughly intertwined with the rest of the OS to ever remove it. The kind of terminal emulator environment that Linux boots into doesn’t even exist in versions of Windows that have been sold after the early 2000s.
I was talking more in the lines of taking away most of the windows bloat. If someone wants to install their own desktop environment they will most likely go down the linux path.
I think a file manager, text editor and command prompt are pretty essential too. And when you’ve added those, where exactly is the limit where it becomes “application software”?
I don’t have an answer for that, but I know Wordpad is definitely not essential and I doubt anyone would use it if it didn’t come with Windows
I think it’s worth separating the two related but distinct concepts of what is a part of the operating system itself (for example, the actual file manager) and what is pre-installed or bundled with the operating system (games like Minesweeper).
I agree with you that a rich text editor definitely shouldn’t be part of the OS. But should it be a bundled part that ships with the desktop environment, the way Windows/MacOS/Android/iOS/ChromeOS all come with photo library software, basic image editors, media players, browser, email client, etc.? These applications aren’t strictly necessary to use or maintain the system itself, so maybe they shouldn’t have some kind of privileged use of the OS’s functionality, but there’s no harm in bundling in the installation defaults.
I don’t think a rich text editor is an important enough function to necessarily be preinstalled with the OS, but I can see an argument, at least. There’s a reason why Windows shipped with one since the beginning, and why MacOS and KDE and Gnome each have a default that very few people actually use regularly.
Yeah, even Apple includes the iWork suite (Pages, Numbers, and Keynote) for free on Macs and iPads, no subscription needed.
As it should be. We pay for it on Windows and Mac…
piracy theme intensifies
Office is one of the easiest things to pirate. It 1. is very popular 2. has an official mass-activation way that can be easily exploited. I suspect we may have a spy in there
Or, y’know, just use LibreOffice with the tabs setting and contextual groups if you can afford experimental features
or if you still hate the UI just use WPS instead, who cares that it’s awful and from China you don’t have to payAlso, why would you even get Word or PowerPoint on macOS?? Excel I understand but these two??
why would you even get Word or PowerPoint on macOS?? Excel I understand but these two??
Main reason would be full compatibility with Office documents.
Also, why would you even get Word or PowerPoint on macOS?? Excel I understand but these two??
Because Word and Powerpoint are what they know.
Let me clarify what I meant. I am saying that we pay for the OS which includes applications on both Mac and Windows. Only Mac gives us a free suite of office applications.
Ah, I get it now.
But you can pirate Windows for the exact same reasons.True
The cost of the full Mac apps and OS is in the cost of the hardware. At least it’s one upfront cost. Surely the way windows is going can’t be popular or sustainable.
Tbh I use Notepad way more than anything for note making.
If it needs to be formatted, OneNote is free to use and can be saved in any cloud (if there is a shortcut like OneDrive or Dropbox in the Windows explorer)
If it needs to be free and not very sophisticated, I’d look around for a markdown based editor.If all of that fails, I will use Word.
Never used Wordpad in 15 years (of 24 years of existence) except while trying to open word but Windows suggesting Wordpad first.i use wordpad a lot for viewing docs (loads faster, uncluttered ui). occasionally writing them… and more than once instead of notepad for a text file (on a system without a notepad alternative available) because i needed more features.
i have a few clients that use wordpad as their ‘word processor’, lack of spelling check be damned.
microsoft must have run out of excuses for specifically not including one in it, seeing how recent windows has spell check baked-in to the os itself. so instead of losing a few dozen sales of office home and student or 365 by making wordpad just a little bit better for those who use it, they’re gonna be the assholes and take it out completely and push everyone to the damn cloud app or a 365 sub. fk 'em.
It has it’s uses. Not for me but some are definitely need it. Problem is, how much effort is it to keep it around vs how much is it used realistically.
Best way forward would be to replace it with a completely different app like Word online but as an actual app lile Word Lite or something like that.
I only use emacs to write TeX notes.
Advertise and push Foss substitutes like libreoffice.
could go a step further and bin windows altogether.
granted, it’s a big step for most.
Love Linux, love windows. 'ate mac, simple as.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=oDezECR9ga4&
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Be part of the 3%! Join today!
Google Docs is free and has basically become the standard word processor for the “unsophisticated users” you’re worried about. It essentially comes with your OS because you only need a browser to use it.
I think your kid and his children will survive.
Making things in Google Docs is fine, but last I checked Google Docs just sucked at opening anything that wasn’t already a GDoc. LibreOffice Writer sometimes has formatting errors opening Word Docs, but it does a miles better job than Google Docs.
Also, I hate how normalized everything using the cloud (aka “Someone Else’s Hard Drive”) for no reason is.
Well to be fair to Google (urgh, that hurt to write) that’s by design, and LO doing so well at it is due to investing a lot of engineering time on it. Basically MS released an open standard for office documents, but refuses to use this open standard themselves, and instead keeps using an ever evolving “transitional” version of their standard that isn’t made public.
it still has strings attached, its not truly “free”. heck, google won’t let it be word pad had no ties to Microsoft once it was given to you. everything else but LibreOffice and some others still have its creator’s ties.
Likely scenario, honestly.
I really don’t worry about it, though.
Not to brag, but it doesn’t bother me.
Understand, there is a solution.
X marks the spot.(Yeah, I know, that’s kind of stupid. But it seemed funny in my head.)
I can’t read you
I’ve given everything, but you seem distant
I can’t feel you
Your heart is somewhere else, it’s missin’
What if I read back to you?
You have a piece, but there’s two
Someone please get this reference.
Then they ask their grandson or work it dept what they should do and both will answer libre office is free
It’s too bad Linux isn’t more normalized. For those very simple users (and for the more sophisticated) Linux is probably much better than Windows at this point.
No ads, free software, updates can be very simple and stable, less security issues.
I disagree. I don’t think a rich text editor should be part of the OS as it’s not there to operate the computer. An OS should be the tools to run applications and manage your computer. There are a bunch of apps which are so small that it makes sense to include them - like a calculator and text editor, but everything else should be optional.
There should be an OS out there for you which doesn’t come with a rich text editor. [If there is ever a time to mention GNU+Linux in a MS thread then now is that time.] For most people however, not including it is a needless barrier to entry.
This is very upsetting to me–more as a point of principle than in fact–but I appreciate that it doesn’t bother younger generations at all.
I am in a support group with over 100 senior citizens in it. Getting a file with a *.rtf extension used to be a thing, but it hasn’t been a thing in years. I do get *.doc and *.docx files so they’re probably getting lured into Office like you said even before Wordpad is removed.
Why in gods name don’t you use libre office. It’s so much better than word and excel for rent
Because libre office is not compatible with many others. You can open it sure but there’s no guarantee that opening .doc or .docx will have broken formatting. Not good for those in the academia or workplace where formatting are strictly enforce.
Absolute bullshit. Microsoft moved to the Open Office document standard after they were forced to and Libre is renown for its ability to open Microsoft’s documents without issue. I have opened countless personally.
Do yourself a favour and get off the junk office suite that hasn’t received a functional update in the last 10 years that wasn’t to improve its rent charging capacity.
I used it for my damn resume because I didn’t have word, didn’t need office. I also liked it because when friends asked me to review a document I could open word documents with it, I would do that sometimes even when I had office because WordPad opened faster and I didn’t need perfect formatting.
I think it is safe to say that your 11 year old is factually wrong lol. But it is okay that they don’t understand how bad this is because the concept of how multiple businesses have switched to subscription based models even in places we wouldn’t expect, like a monthly subscription allowing already installed hardware in your car to actually function, cause it’s just 11 year Olds don’t have a great concept of bills and money at that level yet. I say wait for their first complaint of it as an adult and then put on your carefully choreographed and practiced “I told you so” dance
Okay kidding aside I think it is absolutely wonderful this is something you didn’t just have a conversation with your young kid about but that you had to agree to disagree, you sound like a fantastic parent who actually fosters a relationship with their kid. And probably only rarely says I told you so.
WordPad was a fast and efficient way to view doc files without loading into LibreOffice or any other office suite, or to make rich text documents quickly. But alas, we have to go to the cloud for our notes now…
Do the ultimate OP solution and host your own nextcloud. It has built in office and everything google drive has.
Notepad++ does that too
Honestly, what is the point of Wordpad when you have Notepad and Word?
Not everyone has the money for a copy of Word. There once was a time when free rich text editors were valuable. But at this point I agree it isn’t needed anymore. There are plenty of FOSS alternatives to word that hit that market. Microsoft has probably kept it around this long to prevent people from looking, but now they’ve put their bet on cloud services.
There are plenty of FOSS alternatives to word that hit that market.
Plenty? I know one and its fork. That’s about one and a half.
EDIT: Oh, you probably meant the rich text editors like Wordpad, not text processors like Word. My bad for misunderstanding.
ScintillaTE is an old-ass one. Most people have never heard of it, and those that have have only heard of its variant, UniSciTE, which came bundled as the default text editor for Unity, something like 15 years ago.
I didn’t know Joeffice had a fork. What’s it called?
Knowing the Internet, it would be Joemom, I presume? :)
Assuming you are talking about OpenOffice and LibreOffice, there’s also CollaboraOffice (although this may be counted as another half one, since it’s a online fork of LO) and OnlyOffice in the FOSS sphere. Probably more out there I’m not aware off.
I think AbiWord is still around, which used to be the FOSS simple, WordPad-like word processor of choice.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/free-office-online-for-the-web
Word is available for free now
Not all of us have Word, and Notepad doesn’t have rich text or the ability to open .doc files.
LibreOffice is free
And huge. And bloated, if you only need simple functionality.
Abiword is pretty nice and not too bloated from what I remember
Except it will nuke .docx formatting. Same in reverse.
I make templates for my clients and I always tell them not to open and save in any other client other than OpenOffice.
Even Libre does nuke some parts to some extend…It’s not that bad and always improving. I inter operate the two every day.
OpenOffice is a dead project.
Every time I open anything open office in Word everything is scattered as is usally with the Word meme when moving a picture 2mm.
Libre aint much better. Also I prefer the OpenOffice design. Libre might be more modern and that’s usually what I prefer but I feel like OO is more efficient with it’s menu.
Can’t beat the menu ribbon from Word/Office though.
Have you tried the Libreoffice ribbon menu?
No as my work is using open office and Ihad some issues creating them with libre and then using it in OO.
Outaide of that we have M365 and have no need to go Libre as I can’t see me spending time to relearn it at work.Sounds good though. If I am ever switching to FOSS in that department, I am willing to take a look.
I really like the form options and export to pdf of OO/Libre.
You’re assuming everyone is a power user. There will be thousands of people who won’t have an alternative and think that paying for word is the only option.
This is to fuck over the casual computer user who doesn’t know better or alternatives. Microsoft already knows that more informed users like us are a lost cause to upsell.
This is also why they tried that “malware” pop up to get people to go back to Edge. To once again, fuck over uninformed users.
Abiword is FOSS and would be my choice over Wordpad anyway.
It has been literally twenty years since I last heard any mention of Abiword!
I probably haven’t thought if it for like 10 years myself but this post reminded me of it. I remember maybe 15 years ago using a portable version of it on a USB drive, and it was amazing.
Honestly I’m not too bummed, especially with open-source solutions like Notepad++, but it’s the end of an era! Also, Word is paid, and so Windows not having a built in free RTF editor is notable
Windows not having a built in free RTF editor is notable
Yeah, that is a bit odd, but then again when’s the last time you’ve seen something other than a cut-rate eBook in RTF? Everything is either some variant of plain text or a DOC file these days.
Plus, it’s rare that you ever need to edit RTF files. Read, sure, but that could be handled by Word Viewer, which is free.
EDIT: Right, they’re discontinuing the viewers, but apparently they have a cloud-based online thing that’s free? Sucks if you live somewhere with crap internet I guess.
A lot of ebooks seem to be more epub or pdf these days. RTF isn’t used quite so much.
RTF is a rarity these days since basically every phone, tablet, and other handheld device can handle either PDFs or HTML (and ePub is basically just a ZIP file with HTML in a specific naming scheme and structure). Back in the day though you’d find RTFs more often for use in budget/jury-rigged eReader options. It’s much easier to parse, if nothing else.
WordPad (or at least uses to) opens much faster than word, but still has rich text. Perfect for some short notes.
Or eg to edit an ini file. They display as readable text in WordPad and not just a massive long string like in notepad.
It’s nowhere near as bloated as Word but you have many more options than Notepad when it comes to formatting and presentation. It’s actually impressive how much you can do within the limits of RTF.
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lightweight notes with margins
Also try editing unix or Mac line endings in notepad
Easy way to distribute rich text documents to users without them having to install anything.
I use notepad super often as a copy edit paste aid. It loads in a millisecond.
@jeffw @dantheclamman Wordpad is better for coding
How do people use Wordpad for coding? I’ve never seen that done. If I ever open code in an editor with a “bold” button, I screwed up and close without saving.
He must be thinking of notepad. Which I mean, I would not choose to code in Notepad but I wouldn’t actively avoid it like I would wordpad.
WordPad was often used if a file was too big for Notepad, over 64 KB. But now there are better options.
It’s the “I got to change 1 of code” editor.
The “my IDE didn’t recognize the file type and opened it in here by default” editor.
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Idea! A programming language where text formatting has syntactic meaning! Variable declarations must be italicized! Function calls underlined! And every line justified, of course.
Yep, violence it is then. Just like the lines: justified.
If Chicken can be a language, that can be a language!
And I don’t mean the actually useful programming language. I mean the esolang one where the only valid character is Chicken.
Whatthefuck
Fair enough
of course, gotta push more people to that godawful office 365 crap somehow
Seriously, the market share of Wordpad users is so small Microsoft absolutely does not care
I mean, I use LibreOffice, but for people not that tech savvy it sucks they won’t have a basic rich text tool included with Windows.
Am completely expecting this to be due to falling office sales or fear that people will realize they don’t need expensive Office every few years when WordPad has 90% of functionality for daily use.
I expect this will make a lot of people very angry since I know many users of WordPad.
LibreOffice is what those people need.
I actually very much doubt wordpad has hurt office sales.
To be replaced by a link to WordPad Bing AI Edition
Ew. I’m annoyed by how correct you likely are.
Upcoming:
Direct image linkIt already exists btw: https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/clippy-by-firecube/9NWK37S35V5T
I love Clippy. It’s cool that he can answer all kinds of questions and stuff like that, but I only got him to be a little desktop companion. I wish he had a little more personality to him. His jokes are dry and he’s always saying that he’s my Windows assistant. His “conversations” can be cute at times, I just wish he wasn’t so relentless in his pursuit to assist. I don’t really need help from Clippy, I never did. I need Clippy’s companionship.
—Andrea, 2023-08-22
“Not able to generate content that is biased.”
Well that’s a fucking lie.
Subscription-based, like freaking Solitaire
Slightly annoyed about this, as I do use Wordpad (it’s lightweight and useful for quick notes that I want to mark up with bold and italic). I don’t always want to watch Word or Libreoffice load for twenty to thirty seconds.
Shitty decision, happy to be Wordpad’s one fan.
Only thing I used it for was when older versions of Notepad couldn’t handle larger text files. Now it can. So, no loss to me. Notepad going away would suck, that does at least get occasional use although Notepad++ is far superior.
Notepad++ can’t handle as big files for some reason. At work we have files that can reach 5-600 MB, and NP++ can’t always open those, but notepad handles then with no problem.
I had the same problem but noticed that I was using the 32 bit version of notepad++, installed the 64 bits instead and had no problems with large files
That might actually be something to bring up with IT…
Tbf npp has much more functionality than regular notepad.
Just the syntax highlighting alone probably dramatically lowers the amount of text it can render.
Yep, I prefer it when it works. Highlighting plus line numbers helps a ton.
I’ve opened 4GB files with notepad++ before. Sure, it takes several minutes (I basically have to go away and do something else, or leave it loading in the background) but it gets there, eventually.
NP++ straight up tells us it’s too big to be opened…
Just upload it in the cloud and use Microsoft online word!
\s
Hahahahaha, hahahaha.
Hahahahaha
With bigger files or searching in files where there’s a lot of data I found sublimetext to be much more efficient (than n++)
I use sublime at home, but work is pretty strict with what we can use.
That sounds backwards… I occasionally have to open log files of 1 gig or more, and notepad++ gets sluggish, but is usable, while notepad just hangs until I kill it…
Someone suggested that we might have the 32-bit version, and that that might be the problem. I have no way of checking for a few months though, since I’m on parental leave until January. Because our NP++ just says that the files are too big to be opened. Sidenote: Sometimes it can open files that are a bit bigger, and sometimes only a bit smaller… So it’s not a hard limit that is the same at all times.
There’s a npp plugin called Big Files, I haven’t used it but it might be worth a look.
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Can’t use plugins unfortunately…
Use Vim.
Klogg. I always avoid Microsoft when possible.
Would if I could, but work is pretty strict with what we can use.
It’s a portable app and runs in use space. So no install. I’m in the same boat with work. Open source apps are great for just running an app.
Then it will depend on if we are allowed to download it at all. Can’t be sure about that.
Genuinely curious—why would someone choose to use notepad++ over something like VSCode in 2023?
I can’t say I’ve used n++ in over a decade when I switched to sublime around 2010, moved again to VSCode about 5 years ago
VSCode uses electron so it’s not exactly a lightweight text editor, way overkill if you just want to read a simple .txt. Add on the fact if you got way too many extension, it will be even heavier.
That’s true, although from my experience is VSCode one of the very few electron apps that still start within fractions of a second, even with a handful of extensions. On my machine VSCode (with 38 extensions) is ready to use before the GNOME launch animation has finished.
That said, things are probably a bit different on machines with limited RAM.
NP++ is more lightweight and has some useful stuff builtin and easier to justify to IT dept to than a full IDE 🤷
Personally I prefer pycharm and Atom for my home needs.
Justifying it to IT makes a lot of sense actually. Particularly if you need extensions. I’m lucky I get admin on my laptop where I work
Interesting you’re using atom, actually! Is it still getting much love? I assumed development would go by the wayside once Microsoft bought GitHub a few years ago (as VSCode is almost an identical product)
Yeah it’s on my personal machine, I use it alongside pycharm but it’s (atom) not my main IDE, I keep it because of a few things it does. I disagree vscode is the same, it’s a poorer implementation of pycharm IMHO. Just my opinion though everyone is different in workspace.
I’m interested in what differs from atom about VSCode in your opinion.
Wasn’t VSCode a fork of atom originally?edit: apparently not! When I was picking between the two about 5 years ago, they seemed almost identical to meI’m personally not a big fan of heavy IDEs like the jetbrains products, so VSCode being lighter than pycharm (or any of the IDEA products) is a bonus to me.
Look at Atom community. Speed to load is night and day.
For me, Vscode feels like a cheaper pycharm which is my primary IDE and wouldn’t change as I’ve tried vscode as an alt and it wasn’t good enough for how I work.
Fair play, everyone’s different, I work with another guy who swears by the jetbrains stuff, but it just seems very clunky to me every time I’ve tried it.
I’ll have to give atom another look then, though I’d say VSCode starts in about a second on my machine, so startup time alone probably wouldn’t be a reason for me to switch
N++ can search for a string in a directory full of files, that’s what I use it for. Also helpful for showing unprintable characters like linefeeds or changing bit order mode, I’m not sure vs code can do any of that.
For writing code, though, I do use vs code
IIRC you can do both of those with VSCode, I think even without any extensions too!
The search sidebar has include and exclude fields for directories to search in.
For showing unprintable characters, I think it’s split into two settings: one for whitespace one for control characters like null and bell
I wasn’t aware of that, I’ll have to check it out. Thank you.
This place really hates MS. Can’t believe some of the comments here.
Yeah it’s really strange. I’m not a fan of MS by any means, but I’ve found myself making so many pro-MS comments on Lemmy just because the userbase leans so heavily pro-Linux and anti-MS.
Lemmy and other Fediverse sites tend to attract folks who prefer FOSS. Early Reddit was that way too!
It’s not just preferring FOSS, though – it’s as if people have to publicly perform their hatred of Microsoft.
thats what anger does usually
Pillorying Microsoft has been a FOSS tradition for decades
And then getting downvoted by people who just disagree with your opinion. I’m one of the Reddit refugees so I don’t know if we brought that with us or Lemmy was like that before but it’s sad to see.
It shouldn’t be that strange. Linux nerds are a huge Lemmy demographic.
Much more up on new technology, FOSS, and privacy issues etc. than the general population. Good fit for Lemmy.
MS has a history which informs what their fututre actions are likely to be. If you can’t believe the comments here perhaps you have not heard that history. If you have then consider that lemmy is free software and so you’re more likely to find that way of thinking here.
My goto for distrust of MS https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
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My goto for distrust of MS https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
There’s not a single reference on that page that’s less than 20 years old. Yes, Microsoft did some anticompetitive stuff back when Bill Gates was CEO, but it’s absurd to suggest that that still “informs what their future actions are likely to be”. A lot has changed since the 1990s.
What has changed which means they should be forgiven or trusted during these 20 years? What does a Linux subsystem for Windows prove? They want users to run Linux apps in Windows so their users will be less tempted to not use Windows… so they can add more anti features for profit.
I guess you are completely unaware of the fact that a huge chunk of the Azure infrastructure runs on linux now. MS also knows that in the enterprise space, companies use linux in their server infrastructure also, so their employees need to be able to work in linx as well. MS has versions of SQL and I believe also exchange that run on linux. WSL isn’t just about appease neckbeard wannabes.
I don’t understand why MS using Linux gives you trust in MS. MS leaked documents (over 20 years ago too) showed they considered free software a serious competitior (including Linux). Makes sense they would use it, so what?
I was working in the industry like I do now when that happened. I was disappointed the antitrust trial didn’t break up MS into three companies. Things have changed there. I guess we should dig into your past and hold everything you’ve did 20 years ago against you?
Ballmer was the driving force behind that mentality and he’s been gone from MS for a very long time.
Would breaking up big tech software companies have the same effect as it does with regular companies? I can’t shake the idea it won’t really work. People don’t want the 2nd best free (gratis) mapping software.
I guess we should dig into your past and hold everything you’ve did 20 years ago against you?
If one has not tried to sincerely make amends or doesn’t appear to have changed then it’s resonable take past actions into consideration?? I still see Microsoft making anti-consumer moves and they ain’t making Windows free software (free as in freedom).
Apple is a LOT worse than Microsoft these days
Not to mention the amount of people who think this is about notepad.
A broken clock can be right twice a day. Unless someone keeps playing with the dials.
As a former user, and an hardcore fanboy, I loved MS and Windows. They made computers accessible for the general public. The OS and the office suite were great. The sheer amount of available software for it was phenomenal. They even decided to publish games, which meant quality!
Until they decided to break things.
XP was a great OS, Vista wasn’t. Then 7 was back to being good just for 8 to be not as good. Then Cortana and Edge and the push for cloud computing.
What worked, worked well and was actually useful was changed, removed, phased out…
GNU/Linux is not without its dramas and difficulties but we can expect a good degree of continuity between each version of a software (I’m looking a you, Gnome!). And if we’re that hell bent on having that specific specific piece of software or OS setup, well, we can.
MS by contrast just chucks the good things out and doesn’t even let them floating around as something users may add to their system.
Does someone remembers the PowerToys collection?
PowerToys is alive and well, and updated regularly. More features now too.
PowerToys is very much live and available for download. I use it daily.
Unpopular opinion: Vista was actually a good step forward, but the hardware of the time wasn’t up for the task which made it run like dogshit, and hence the public perception. It brought in better memory management, and UAC for better security among other things.
What worked, worked well and was actually useful was changed, removed, phased out…
MS by contrast just chucks the good things out and doesn’t even let them floating around as something users may add to their system. Cortana, widely hated and unused, was phased out for one… wordpad being gone is so insignificant, it wasn’t even very good at its primary task.
They often replace things, e.g. the Photos app had a Video editor built in but now that’s a separate and better app. I think they’re doing a pretty good job of their software range actually.
What bugs me about Windows is actually their striving so much for backwards compatibility that there’s at least 6 ways to edit things or data and they’re all still officially supported. It’s a bit bloaty and no Devs have any consensus.
Does someone remembers the PowerToys collection?
The newer version is installed on my Windows 11 and is under active development.
Vista was a good idea and good start, but 7 was the finished product that needed shipped. Just like XP was the finished version of 2000, though 2000 wasn’t bad, but XP was just better, more optimized, and yes hardware caught up also. 98, was 95 but better, fixed and polished. 10 was windows 8 better, fixed and polished, and they dumped that stupid fucking tablet interface that everyone hated, (and whoever put that interface in server 2012 needs to be beaten with a sand filled wiffle ball bat)
Backwards compatibility is why windows dominates the market. Without that, it wouldn’t have taken over the business world. Legacy code is what makes the business world operate. Yes it hold back windows for some growth, but deprecating that would wreck so many businesses, especially small ones.
Does someone remembers the PowerToys collection?
That name rings a bell. My username is from “Tweak Tools 95”, which I think was a part of that or something.
Edit: Also Windows has a long history of alternating good and bad versions.
- 98 - good
- ME - bad
- XP - good
- Vista - bad
- 7 - good
- 8 - bad
- 10 - good
- 11 - bad
In theory, the next version of Windows should be fairly good, or at least an improvement on 11. However I worry that MS will buck the trend now - particularly as they’ve pivoted away from software sales to software as a service (with additional data collection because fuck paying users).
Unpopular opinion: Win 11 works well for me, and is visually better than Win 10. Although it’s a fairly recent PC. Although if they keep pushing more telemetry and ads, I’m moving over to Ubuntu.
Its the small things on Windows 11 for me. Like the “more options” section on the right click… that must have been added just to annoy people. It’s where all the good options are.
Otherwise, seems to run fine.
That’s a big issue for me, though. I really value being able to do simple tasks quickly with minimal effort and the fewest clicks, it allows me to focus my attention on the actual thing I’m trying to do. Clicking through multiple submenus unnecessarily infuriates me.
As someone from a developing country, windows 11 contributes to higher digital inequality because of its unnecessary high hardware requirements. If they don’t support windows 10 for a long time, we will suffer a great toll.
And unfortunately, people around here barely use linux and developed quite a repulsion for it, which only makes things worse for ourselves…
It’s hard not to hate microsoft when we live on the ugly side of capitalism.
Why does everyone keep forgetting 2000 and 8.1?
2000 was mostly NT and business stuff (which later became XP), and 8.1 by definition isn’t really a new version.
Actually, 8.1 is, or at least they market it like a new version just like Windows 7.
I mean, not many people are in the loving Microsoft camp. Tolerate maybe.
I’m guessing you’re pretty young, then.
I would have never thought so many people would be pissed about Wordpad. Fucking Wordpad! It’s terrible! And Ms isn’t killing it to get office subscriptions because no one fucking uses it! They’re killing it because it isn’t worth the effort to maintain. There are so many free alternatives that are better.
I can count on one hand the amount of MS products I’ve vaguely enjoyed using. Most things seems to be designed with the attitude that people will be using this whether they like it or not, making the user experience fucking awful. Nothing wrong with shitting on them.
They must not be able to spy on people thru it
I get that people here hate MS, but defending Wordpad is a bonkers hill to die on.
It’s complete wank.
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Notepad is, in fact, under active development. They recently upgraded find and replace so it works 90% of the time instead of 30% and added some annoying restore session by default feature. not to mention tabs
I’d never had an issue with find and replace, but then I tend to install notepad++ straight away.
I interviewed at Microsoft decades ago and found a bug in notepad during my interview when they gave me a laptop and asked me how I would test notepad.
Their faces indicated that this was not supposed to be a productive exercise.
did you get the job?
it will deprecate WordPad with a future Windows update as it’s no longer under active development
It doesn’t need “active development” because it is perfect the way it is. Unix/Linux has tons of useful programs that haven’t been in active development for 40-50 years.
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Notepad is just a barebones text editor. I doubt there were any substantial changes since Windows 95, other than ensuring it runs on a 32 and later 64 bit infrastructure, and the menu works with newer releases. That sounds like a 1h per quarter job at most.
I haven’t been using Wordpad for 20+ years. Notepad could do everything it does already. Then, you also have Firefox’s built-in inspect to tinker with code on the fly.
Word pad is a rich text editor.
“It was perfect”? Windows was always crap.
Honestly, this blows. WordPad fills a niche between a full blown text editor and notepad. Most of my random daily notes use WordPad still when not OneNote.
